Curse

Antwan · Jan 03, 2006, 12:13 AM // 00:13

I've been playing around with Mist Form for some time now and I seem to have hit a wall with my research to how it can be utilised in an UW scenario. Before I get into the build, I will just describe my research as it now stands.

1: If with 16 Wilderness Survival, Quickening Zepher is cast, followed by Serpents Quickness, SQ can be upkept indefinately.

2: With 12 Water Magic, a +20% enchants mod and SQ; Mist Form lasts 18+3.6 seconds, has a cast time of 2 and recharges at 20 seconds. ie: can be renewed every 22 seconds and lasts 21.6 seconds.

3: Using Glyph of Concentration to protect MF, this amounts to approximately 53 energy every 70 seconds. (I do not think 3 pips covers this as tests hve shown a slow decrease in energy)

4: Troll Ungeunt can be upkept indefinately due to SQ and has a fairly high regen due to 16 WS, but also ends up adding a great deal of energy cost over time.

5: Shard Storm can be used to kill Dying Nightmares in one hit but requries line fo sight and also costs more energy. (cost: 10, cast: 1, recharge: 10)

6: Apply Poison can be used while MF is running to poison enemies, this also costs a great deal more energy to perform and upkeep.

This said, the build currently stands as follows:

R/E 20

Wilderness Survival: 12 + 1 + 3
Expertise: 3 + 1
Water Magic: 12

1: Troll Unguent
2: Serpents Quickness
3: Glyph of Concentration
4: Mist Form
5: Quickening Zepher
6: ???Shard Storm???
7: ???Apply Poison???
8: --Undecided--

Any comment and suggestions for improvements are welcome, as with ideas for energy management in particular. I hope some of you have as much fun toying with this build as i ahve had. (I also relise there is a great possiblity for spinoff builds which may come from this due to the fact that infinite SQ and all skills recharging at a 33% faster rate can be quite handy)

Good Luck with your findings.

ghostlyranger · Jan 03, 2006, 03:32 AM // 03:32

the thing is, does it kill the mob fast with this build?

LightsEdge · Jan 03, 2006, 05:34 AM // 05:34

Maybe you would have more luck with energy as a E/R

Murder In China · Jan 03, 2006, 05:42 AM // 05:42

Bladed Aatxes have a natural regen of 3 pips, poison has a degen of 4 pips. Soooo the Bladed Aatxes would only receives a 2 life degen or 1 pip of degen....not a very quick way to kill one.

Also, Quickening Zepher has a recharge of 60 seconds, but even having your Wilderness Survival at 16, your spirit won't outlive the recharge. Meaning you won't be able to keep up Mist Form to kill a Bladed Aatxe with 1 pip of degen.

pagansaint · Jan 03, 2006, 07:03 AM // 07:03

Except for the 30% faster recharge, which knocks it down to... 42 seconds, then you use Serpent's Quickness to knock it down another 30% to 38 seconds. Probably less, because one of them is 33% isn't it?

Antwan · Jan 03, 2006, 09:22 AM // 09:22

Ok, thanks for your replies, let me answer them in order;

ghostlyranger, no it doesn't kill the mobs fast at all, thats why I've brought my research here in hope to find a way i can make killing mobs effective.

LightsEdge, I have to be R/E due to fact that serpents needs 16 WS to last 31 seconds.

Murder In China, same thing, yes it isnt a very quick way to kill the Aatxes so I am hopeing for some suggestions, also QZ is used only once so that serpents recharges fast the first time, after that, it affects itself and the recharge is 30 and it lasts 31, hence it lasts forever.

pagansaint, same aswell, QZ is only there to affect SQ once, after that it is self sustainable.

Murder In China · Jan 04, 2006, 12:19 AM // 00:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Antwan

Murder In China, same thing, yes it isnt a very quick way to kill the Aatxes so I am hopeing for some suggestions, also QZ is used only once so that serpents recharges fast the first time, after that, it affects itself and the recharge is 30 and it lasts 31, hence it lasts forever.

You also have to waste 5 seconds to cast the spirit again.

Katari · Jan 04, 2006, 05:08 AM // 05:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Murder In China

You also have to waste 5 seconds to cast the spirit again.

He only has to cast QZ once, ever.

With QZ up, the recharge on SQ is 22.5s. Lets assume by the time its duation is up, 31s latter, QZ is long dead. If he were to use SQ then, in that last second of its duration, it would effect itself. Its recharge would then bee 30s, as long as he dosn't slip, he can keep it up indefinatly. As long as he is carefull with it, he only needs to cast QZ once, ever.

Murder In China · Jan 06, 2006, 12:16 AM // 00:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Katari

He only has to cast QZ once, ever.

With QZ up, the recharge on SQ is 22.5s. Lets assume by the time its duation is up, 31s latter, QZ is long dead. If he were to use SQ then, in that last second of its duration, it would effect itself. Its recharge would then bee 30s, as long as he dosn't slip, he can keep it up indefinatly. As long as he is carefull with it, he only needs to cast QZ once, ever.

I know how Serpent's Quickness works, you can only have it recharge it'self once and only once. After trapping Underworld for so long you begin to notice when the amount of traps you lay down begin to slow down.

You have to cast QZ again....

Antwan · Jan 06, 2006, 12:44 AM // 00:44

Actually, during the period where i was lvling my ranger to do this build, I gave him 16 wilderness survival and quite easily upkept SQ throughout entire missions. (without recasting QZ)

Murder In China · Jan 06, 2006, 12:51 AM // 00:51

You can't keep up Serpent's Quickness forever with QZ once.

pagansaint · Jan 06, 2006, 01:17 AM // 01:17

Seems you can. It is a matter of timing and math.

33% reduced recharge time. 45 second recharge time. Reduce by 33%. 30 seconds. 31 second duration. Hmmm math wins again?

If you haven't managed to do it, doesn't mean someone else can't. People used to say soloing FoW was impossible but I know for a fact there are atleast 3 different builds that can.

Murder In China · Jan 06, 2006, 05:03 AM // 05:03

You cast QZ, it last for around 47 seconds. You hit Serpent's Quickness, you get 31 seconds of it and recharge is 30 seconds. Once you hit Serpent's Quickness again, you have another 31 seconds,but it doesn't make the recharge to 10 seconds but stays around 30 seconds.

Now you hit it another time, but QZ dies. Now you have 45 seconds of recharge on Serpent's Quickness. Not enough time to outlive or even reach its duration. I know how it works, I have a 16 Wilderness Survival Trap ranger for UW runs and I know you can't keep Serpent's Quickness up forever with Qz used once, unless your staff activates the quickens recharge mod.

You can't keep Serpent's Quickness up forever by using QZ once.

pagansaint · Jan 06, 2006, 05:42 AM // 05:42

<sigh>

No one is saying the recharge keeps diminishing, we are saying the duration is longer than the recharge.

Math:

Quickening Zephir: Takes Serpent's Quickness to 22.5

Serpent's Quickness: Takes Serpent's Quickness to 30 seconds.

Serpent's Quickness does not affect itself the first time you use it. There in lies the use of Quickening Zephir, take the recharge down another way. That way it can be ready to activate before the first Serpent's Quickness use ends. So on all consecutive uses, if you re-use while Serpent's Quickness is still up, you gain the benefit from 33% faster recharge rate.

In simpler words:

Recharge is 30 seconds.
Duration is 31 seconds.

Maintained indefinitely.

Please stop arguing the math. The numbers are absolute. They are inarguable.

You are saying that despite the math and experiance of others, IE hard facts AND witness reports, that something is impossible.

Katari · Jan 06, 2006, 07:48 AM // 07:48

Ok, so after reading this argument, I grabbed QZ, SQ, and 16 wilderness. Guess what? You can keep it up. If you don't belive me, go try it yourself. Yes, you do need to be somewhat quick with it, and it may be tough to keep going while other things, but you CAN keep it up non-stop. Go try it.

Antwan · Jan 06, 2006, 10:48 PM // 22:48

Ok, guys thankyou for (finally) clearing that up, now as for the problems with energy management and damage dealing, do you have any suggestions on those?

Right now this build has been stopped in its tracks and its so close to completion. Perhaps I will have to wait untill some new ranger skills come out *crosses his fingers* in GW2. Although in saying that, it is likely that there will be a new farming location in GW2 as perhaps ecto will become less valuable in the new 'world'.

Lasher Dragon · Jan 06, 2006, 11:35 PM // 23:35

One thing that really sucks about this setup, and it pisses me off, is that even though you have mist form up you can STILL be interrupted while laying traps. It's ridiculous. I mean, I know traps are easily interrupted and all, and that has annoyed me to no end throughout the game. Even with 75% block/evade, I still get interrupted laying traps probably half the time. When I read about this Mist Form build I thought "Hey, now if there were any way to run into a mob and start laying traps, that would be it!" Nope. Gay.